NATIONAL TELEPHONIC PRESS CONFERENCE--LIPAN APACHE WOMEN DEFENSE DELIVER LETTER TO OBAMA-TRANSITION TEAM

PRESS CONFERENCE PANEL:

Dr. Eloisa Garcia Tamez
Margo Tamez
Diana Valenzuela (Jumano-Apache)
Daniel Castro Romero, Jr. (Lipan Apache)
Jose Matus (Yaqui)
Michael Paul Hill (Chiricahua Apache)
Chris Scherer, Center for Human Rights and Constitutional Law
Denise Gilman, University of Texas Law Working Group--Texas-Mexico Border Wall
Jeff Wilson,University of Texas Law Working Group--Texas-Mexico Border Wall
Arnoldo Garcia, National Network for Immigrant and Refugee Rights

YES, YOU CAN JOIN EFFORTS TO PRIORITIZE INDIGENOUS PEOPLES & PRINCIPLES! SIGN-ON OUR LETTER TO PRES.-ELECT OBAMA

EMAIL MARGO TAMEZ AT sumalhepa.nde.defense@gmail.com to join!

SIGNATORIES on LETTER TO PRESIDENT-ELECT OBAMA
INTERIOR DEPARTMENT TRANSITION TEAM
ROBERT ANDERSON--CO-CHAIR

Dr. Eloisa García Támez, Lipan Apache, Associate Professor, Department of Nursing, University of Texas Brownsville and Texas Southmost College; Co-Founder Lipan Apache Women Defense, El Calaboz Ranchería, TX
Margo Tamez, Lipan Apache, Jumano-Apache, Co-Founder Lipan Apache Women Defense, WA; PhD Candidate, American Studies, Washington State University, Pullman, WA
Carmelita (Tamez) Lamb and Family, Lipan Apache, Jumano-Apache, Bottineau, North Dakota
M. ReBeca (Tamez) Drury and Family, Lipan Apache, Jumano-Apache, San Antonio, TX
Daniel Castro Romero, Jr., Lipan Apache, Chairman, Lipan Apache Band of Texas, Inc., TX. Official Representative of 745 Members
Michael Paul Hill, Nnee’ (Chiricahua Apache), San Carlos Apache Tribe, Staff, Lipan Apache Women Defense, AZ
Enrique Madrid, Jumano-Apache, Council Member, Jumano-
Apache Tribe of Texas, ( El Polvo) Redford, TX
Adelina Carrasco Whitecrow, Jumano-Apache, Community Leader & Elder, (El Polvo) Redford, TX
Roberto Lujan, Jumano-Apache, Council Member, Jumano-Apache Tribe of Texas, Presidio-Redford, TX
John Wood, Cameron County Commission, Commissioner—Precinct 2, Brownsville, TX
Andrea Carmen, Yaqui, Executive Director, International Indian Treaty Council, AK
Tia Oros, Zuni, Executive Director, Seventh Generation Fund, Arcata, CA
Petuuche Gilbert, Indigenous World Association, United Nations NGO
Teresa Leal, Ópata-Mayo, Proyecto Comadres Ambos Nogales, Sonora, Mexico
Peter Schey, Founder and Director, Center for Human Rights and Constitutional Law, Los Angeles,CA
Jose Matus, Yaqui, Director, Alianza Indigena Sin Fronteras/Indigenous Alliance Without Borders, AZ
Lori Riddle, Akimel O’odham, Co-Founder, Gila River Alliance for a Clean Environment, Bapchule, Gila River Indian Community, AZ
E. Elizabeth Garcia, Director, Coalition of Amigos in Solidarity & Action (CASA), TX
Reverend Michael Seifert, Proyecto Digna, Inc., Brownsville, TX
Juanita Valdez-Cox, Executive Director, La Union del Pueblo Entero (LUPE), TX
Graciela Sanchez, Director, Esperanza Peace and Justice Center, San Antonio, TX
Gloria A. Ramirez, Editor, La Voz de Esperanza, San Antonio, TX
Bill Guerra Addington, Sierra Blanca Legal Defense, Sierra Blanca, TX
James C. Harrington, Director, Texas Civil Rights Project, TX
Ann W. Cass, Executive Director, Proyecto Azteca, San Juan, TX
Benigno Pena, South Texas Immigration Council Inc., Brownsville, Texas
Alejandro Siller-González, MACC, San Juan Diego Project, Immigrants and Migrant Farmworkers /Inmigrantes y Campesinos Migrantes, San Antonio, TX
Kriss Worthington,Council Member, Berkeley City Council, Berkeley, CA
Arnoldo Garcia, National Network for Immigrant & Refugee Rights, CA
Pedro Rios, Director – US/Mexico Border Program, American Friends Service Committee, San Diego CA
Bradley Angel, Co-Founder and Executive Director Greenaction for Health and Environmental Justice, San Francisco, CA
Mark Sanchez, President, San Francisco Board of Education, San Francisco, CA
April Cotte, Co-Founder, El Polvo Women’s Network, Redford, TX
Kamala Platt, The Meadowlark Center, KS
Noemi Lujan Perez, Raramuri, Chief Information Architect, Desert Runner, LLC, Washington, D.C.
Kirk L. Smith, MD, PhD, Frontera de Salud, Galveston, TX
Bill Chandler, MIRA! Mississippi Immigrants Rights Alliance
Paul "Pablo" A. Martinez, Apache, NM State Director, New Mexico LULAC Organization, Las Cruces, NM
Fabiola Torralba, Buena Gente y Nepantlera, Espereranza Peace and Justice Center, San Antonio, TX
Lupita De La Paz, El Comité Cultural Del Pueblo,Inc. Del Rio, Texas
Morning Star Gali, Citizen of the Pit River Nation, Community Liaison Coordinator, International Indian Treaty Council
TONATIERRA, Phoenix, AZ
Mary Ann Tenuto Sanchez, Chiapas Support Committee
United Native Americans, Inc., Turtle Island
Adrienne Evans, Co-Founder, No Wall - Big Bend Coalition


Angelique Eagle Woman (Wambdi A. WasteWin), Sisseton-Wahpeton Dakota Oyate, James E. Rogers Fellow in American Indian Law, Associate Professor, University of Idaho College of Law, ID
Pablo Padilla Jr., Zuni, Attorney, Santa Fe, New Mexico
Jeff Wilson, Assistant Professor, Environmental Science, University of Texas-Brownsville, University of Texas Law Working Group (Texas-Mexico Border Wall), Brownsville, TX
Aurora Vasquez, Senior Attorney, Advancement Project, Washington, D.C.
Tom I. Romero, II J.D., Ph.D. Associate Professor, Hamline University School of Law
Diana Webster, Minnesota Ojibwe White Earth, Attorney at Law, Redondo Beach, CA
Monica Schurtman, Associate Professor and Clinic Supervisor, University of Idaho College of Law, Idaho
Jeffrey P. Shepherd, Ph.D. Assistant Professor of History, University of Texas at El Paso, TX
Cynthia L. Bejarano, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Criminal Justice, New Mexico State University, NM
Amy Kastely, Board Member, Esperanza Peace and Justice Center and Law Professor, St. Mary's University, San Antonio, TX
J. Kehaulani Kauanui, Kanaka Maoli/Native Hawaiian, Associate Professor American Studies and Anthropology, Wesleyan University, CT
Victoria Bomberry, Muscogee Nation, Assistant Professor, Department of Ethnic Studies, University of California, Riverside, CA
Dr. Gail Perez, Ethnic Studies, Professor University of San Diego, San Diego, CA
Emmy Perez, Assistant Professor, Department of English, University of Texas-Pan American, TX
Linda Zuniga-Heidenreich, Chair and Associate Professor, Women’s Studies Department, Washington State University, Pullman, WA
Martha Bárcenas, Pitzer College (Professor/Language and Culture Lab Director), Claremont, CA
Madeline Newman Rios, Ríos Translations, Claremont CA
Dorinda Moreno, Fuerza Mundial/Elders of 4 Colors 4 Directions, Santa Maria, CA
Jeanne Chadwick, Cherokee, Publisher/Editor My Two Beads Worth~Indigenous News
Ken Koym, Indigenous R & D Institute & A Maya Artifacts Museum Exchange Program, Austin, TX
Enrique Morones, Border Angels, San Diego CA
T.V. Reed, Buchanan Distinguished Professor American Studies and English, Washington State University, Pullman, WA
Joni Adamson, Associate Professor, Environmental Humanities, Arizona State University,Mesa, AZ
Vicente M. Diaz, Associate Professor and Director, Asian/Pacific Islander American Studies, Program in American Culture, The University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan



Erik Tamez-Hrabovsky & Children: Hawk Mendoza (14), Milpa de Otoño Mendoza (13), Maura Sun Tamez (9), Aria Mikassandra Reina Mundo Yellow-Basket-Weaver Tamez-Hrabovsky (5), Lipan Apache, Jumano-Apache ,Pullman, WA
Rosie Molano Blount, Chiricahua Apache, Del Rio, Texas and Pecos, Texas
Lucille Contreras and Children, Beto Chacon, JoseKuautli Contreras Maestas, LuzTlanezi Contreras Maestas, Jesus Tekuani Contreras Maestas, Lipan Apache Band of Texas—Azteca, Flatonia, TX
Emil LaRocque, Turtle Mountain Band of Chippewa Indians, Tribal Scholarship Director, Turtle Mountain Community College/Chippewa Rancher, North Dakota
Yvonne 'Little Fawn' Oakes, Mohawk Nation
Richard Oakes Jr., Mohawk Nation
Leonard Oakes, Mohawk Nation Akwasasne, St. Regis, Canada
Pura Fe Crescioni, Tuscarora Nation of North Carolina
Looking Back Woman, Suzanne Dupree, Minneconjou Lakota, Cheyenne River Agency, Eagle Butte, SD
Bettina Escauriza, Oakland, CA
Abner Burnett, Attorney (Civil Rights), Rio Grande Valley, TX
Isabel Sanchez, San Antonio, TX
Lupita Santana, Pharr, TX
Phillip H. Duran, New Mexico
Jacqueline White, RN, PhD, Tucson, AZ
Erika Gisela Abad, Chicago, Illinois
Ryan Tauber, Educator, Brownsville Independent School District, and Member of Coalition of Amigos in Solidarity & Action (CASA), Brownsville, TX
Yajaira Fuentes-Tauber, Brownsville Independent School District, and Member of Coalition of Amigos in Solidarity & Action (CASA), Brownsville, TX
Judy Meuth, Clinical Associate Professor, Department of Women's Studies, Washington State University, Pullman, WA
Cesar Alejandro (Filmmaker), President, Alexandria Films, El Paso, TX
Iram and Molly Verduzco, Austin, TX
Joe and Jane Krause, Pax Christi, Brownsville, TX
Sandra Cisneros, Author, San Antonio, TX
Yolanda Moreno, A Resource In Serving Equality (ARISE), Rio Grande Valley, TX
Sanjuanita Martinez, Rio Grande Valley, TX
Esperanza Berrones, Pharr, TX
Maria Esparza, Rio Grande Valley, TX
Hortencia Medina, Rio Grande Valley, TX
Gary James, Ontario, Canada
Teresa Kurtzhall, Elk, Washington State
Braulio Carvajal Veloz, Esperanza Peace & Justice Center, San Antonio, TX
Lila Maes, The Marigold Project, San Francisco, CA
Juan N. Reza, California
Xoxi Nayapiltzin, Yolihua, Alpine, Tx
Francisco Solis Garcia, Jr., Lower Rio Grande Valley, TX

Letter to Robert Anderson, Interior Department Transition Team Co-Chair, from Lipan Apache Women Defense

Professor Robert Anderson
Co-Chair, Interior Department Transition Team
Director University of Washington School of Law
Native American Law Center

Cc: Keith Harper
Team Lead, Interior Department Transition Team
Kilpatrick Stockton LLP
Suite 900
607 14th Street, NW
Washington, DC 20005-2018

Dagotee' Robert Anderson,

At this time, on behalf of my mother, Dr. Eloisa Garcia Tamez, Indigenous peoples, and impacted land owners of El Calaboz Rancheria, and in coordination with our allied communities throughout the hemisphere, we are handing to you an important document which articulates the prayers, vision and requests from traditional elders, women, families, veterans, and workers of the Texas-Mexico bordered lands.

Since I last spoke to you, an enormous effort has gone into the preparation of this document, encompassing the voices of a vast binational, international network of grass-roots communities, legal advisors, NGO's, non-profit organizations, and key Indigenous leaders along the U.S.-Mexico bordered lands

We are entrusting you with this historical document in the hopes that you will safekeep and deliver our message to the Interior Department Transition Team and to President-Elect Obama.

Attached is our letter addressed to to the President-Elect, care of yourself, and copied to Keith Harper.

Ahe'ye'e,

Margo Tamez
Co-Founder
Lipan Apache Women Defense

LETTER TO OBAMA TRANSITION TEAM (ENGLISH)

LETTER TO OBAMA TRANSITION TEAM (SPANISH)

ALL MEDIA ADVISORY (20DEC08)

LIPAN APACHE BAND OF TEXAS--SUPPORT LETTER

All We Need ... A Few Sparks...

Texas landowners win small victory on border fence
By CHRISTOPHER SHERMAN Associated Press Writer © 2008 The Associated Press
Dec. 18, 2008, 6:24PM

McALLEN, Texas — Dozens of South Texas landowners whose land is being condemned for the border fence scored a victory when a federal judge ordered that juries will decide the value of their property rather than an appointed land commission as the government had requested.
U.S. District Judge Andrew Hanen set the stage for a series of trials to begin in March with his order signed Wednesday. While the trials will be restricted to determining how much the government pays landowners for the property, it gives Texas landowners their first opportunity to take an issue related to the border fence before a jury.
"I'm proud of him, he's doing his job," Eloisa Tamez, a landowner facing condemnation near Brownsville, said Thursday. "To have this kind of news before the holidays is like a Christmas gift for me."
The federal government has filed more than 300 condemnation lawsuits against South Texas landowners to make way for portions of the 670 miles of fencing it is building along the U.S.-Mexico border. So far about 500 miles is up, but it has been slow going in the Rio Grande Valley, where opposition is widespread.
Federal prosecutors had argued that the number of jury trials would swamp the courts, result in uneven payments and be extremely complex. A panel of land experts appointed by the court would be a more efficient option and more fair since it would be difficult to find enough unbiased jurors in an area where the fence has been a hot-button issue for months, the government said.
But Hanen, based in Brownsville, sided with landowners, 28 of whom are set for trial next year and all requested juries. The U.S. Attorney's Office did not immediately return a call for comment.
"This court is a firm believer in the jury system and the ability of everyday citizens to set aside their personal beliefs, biases and prejudcies to decide cases solely on the evidence presented within the context of a court's instructions," Hanen wrote in his order.
Hanen also cast doubt on the government's claim that about 80 cases will eventually need juries to determine land values. He suggested that even among the 28 cases scheduled for trial so far, similar parcels could be clustered in groups of three to be heard by the same jury. Most property owners settled with the government out of court.
The condemnations range from a quarter acre to more than 12 acres, but in many cases those are just slivers taken from tracts covering hundreds of acres north of the Rio Grande. Land commissions are generally believed to award lower compensation than juries, eminent domain attorneys say.
Each case will offer its own complexities, from calculating the impact on hunting leases to the value of the land left in the no-man's land between the fence and the river.
Kimberli Loessin, an attorney representing some of the landowners, wrote in an e-mail, "Landowners are pleased and believe that Judge Hanen did the right thing."

Get Ready, Get Set... Nde' Cultural Survival in the Lower Rio Grande

El Calaboz, Lower Rio Grande Valley, TX
December 18, 2009A year ago… the hostile enforcement policies of the US DHS/Secure Border Initiative against ancient border communities came to the foreground in landmark struggles on the Texas-Mexico border. The construction of the border wall through the middle of ancient, Rio Grande communities, forced Eloisa Garcia Tamez, (Lipan Apache), and community elders of El Calaboz Rancheria, as well as numerous poor Native land owners along the Rio Grande to stop the U.S. DHS from taking the community’s lands, ancient burials, archaeological resources, botanical and medicinal riparian zones, and their pastoral ways of life dependent upon cattle, grazing rights, water rights and Indigenous Peoples’ communal lifeways. The conflict raised constitutional, civil, and human rights in the face of intensified government force to pressure the community in numeros ways to surrender their lands.

Along the way… a robust independent media, and grass-roots network exposed deep corruption among local elites, scandal, and repressive government regimes managing the dispossession of the region’s poor Indigenous Peoples and persons along the Rio Grande's banks.

One year later…approximately eighty landowners continue to litigate their ancestral and communal land claims along the Texas-Mexico border. Success is measured in Chertoff's failures to wall in the resisting communities. Their firm resistances--based in living their daily lives and developing new strategies borrowed from older generations, from coalitions with like-minded grass roots Indigneous persons and groups; and working with allied media, law, grassroots, NGO's, nonprofits, faith-based communities, immigrant rights communities has enlarged the capacity of the prayer. Resistance and ceremony take on new meanings as the struggle continues.

Faith v. Greed...The new layer of corruption, beyond 'holes in the wall', is 'rigged jury system' and 'corrupt appraiser racket', whereby the U.S. and local industry leaders have attempted to shut out any possibility of a fair jury trial for litigants. 'Not on my shift', is fundamentally the message issued from Judge Hanen, in a ruling yesterday. Empaneled jurors will prevail, at least, as long as the resistance to oppressive government and industries continues.

Some of the land claims, such as Eloisa Garcia Tamez’, pre-date the United States as a sovereign nation, and are directly connected to Lipan Apache (Nde') peoples' struggles against forced colonization and dispossession by Spain, Texas, Mexico and the U.S. The Indigenous Peoples rights to exist as self-determining communities is gaining traction, in a region with a history of slavery, Jim Crow, hacendado culture, and harsh repression. In the face of increasing public criticism of the border wall, and claims of human rights violations before the Inter-American Commission/OAS, Indigenous Peoples are reframing and redefining the border wall conflict. We are organizing our networks around a framework of ‘Indigenous Peoples & Principles.’
(Part I)
Stay tuned...

Today, December 12, 2008 Is Our One Year Anniversary

On December 11, 2007, my mother Eloisa Garcia Tamez, called me to tell me that she had received a vision, an answer to her prayers for help from the Holy Mother to stop the construction of the border wall and the United States use of colonial instruments to steal Indigenous lands and to quash Indigenous resistance: Eminent Domain, Condemnation Proceedings, Declaration of Taking and Just War... She received instructions to go to the people, be unafraid, tell the truth, defend the people, and have faith. My mother followed the instructions...

[photo: Arnoldo Garcia]

Traditionally, the women of our culture pray to the Holy Mother. The Spanish Catholics converted the Apache of the Lower Rio Grande in the colonization process, and the Holy Mother of All Nde' (Apache People) who is Naiiess Isdzanaklesh, eventually became collapsed into the Guadalupe, the Virgin who gave birth to the Child of Water--Monster Slayer, or in the Catholic tradition, 'Jesus.'

In the U.S.-Mexico border region, Indigenous elders, grandmothers, mothers, daughters, and the men who support them, continue to live out the ancient rituals and Nde' beliefs 'under-the-cover' of state-approved religions. In the Lower Rio Grande, the religious practice of Catholicism is Indigenized.

A year ago, my mother called me to joyously announce that the Holy Mother came to her and told her that my mother must go to the local parish priest on December 12, at San Ignatius church, in the sister Rancheria of El Ranchito, down the road. The Holy Mother told my mother that she must pray, be strong, and that she must tell the people that they must unite and join in the fight against the injustice of the border wall. She commanded my mother to tell the parish elders and community that they must all join and go to the march in Brownsville, and to take the message of the people to the government, who were staging deception in corporate-contracted and controlled 'meetings.'

This all came to pass, and is documented now throughout our communities, and the internet, how an elder woman from El Calaboz confronted the U.S. DHS at the "community meeting", and exposed the scandalous corruption of the U.S., and its 'Chiefs'--war contractors.

In the process, an Indigenous restoration movement gained strength in our communities. For decades, Nde' in the Lower Rio Grande struggled for rights to our culture and way of life. This year, we witnessed the miracle of our ancient traditions emerge from the shadows and under-cover, to the open light. The Holy Woman/Mother Naiiees Isdzanaklesh (White Painted Woman) ceremony returned to our people in the open, and the ancient and the current converged in our resistance movement.

Please join us in taking a moment today to pause, reflect and to pray for the elders who are going to churches, sweat lodges, teepees, and to earth and water today, throughout the Americas. We stand firm on the rights of our Indigenous people to send the prayers and thoughts of peace and justice on the wings of Eagles, up to the Creator.

Join us in our celebration of a strong year helping in the efforts of many who are uniting our Indigneous people communities throughout the border, December 12, 2008, and celebrate the ongoing resistance and disruption of the Texas-Mexico border wall, from El Calaboz Rancheria!

Join and support Indigenous Women's Tribal Law, Lands and Life. We need all of your support.

PLEASE MAKE a financial contribution to the LIPAN APACHE WOMEN DEFENSE FOR 2009! USE THE PAY-PAL BUTTON. AHE'YE'E'
--Margo Tamez

More Soldiers (Troops) On the Ground Is a Threat to Nde' Way of Life

(Photo: PBS)

(Film still: Kieren Fitzgerald)

(Photo: Margo Tamez)

(Photo: Austin American Statesman)

Yuma, Arizona News Reveals Suspicion, Napolitano Could Send More Troops to Border

Indigneous Nde' people of the Lower Rio Grande Valley are threatened by increased militarization of our home communities, rancherias, farmlands, stock areas, water, riparian wetlands, and sacred sites.

Nde' and other indigenous communities of the rancherias along the Rio Grande, who uphold traditional indigneous teachings of sacred lifeways which respect and honor Life, stand firm on denouncing further hostile encroachments upon our traditional ways of life and cultures.

Nde' teachings come from our foreparents and our contemporary elders who are leading the resistance against a Berlin-style steel-concrete wall through indigenous traditional sacred lands. We ask all Nde' people and our friends and allies throughout the region to stand firm against further militarization of our region. Peace cannot come through armed force and aggression. Local Nde' elders, children, women and men, indigenous workers, and our communities will be first impacted by increased armed uniformed soldiering in our communities.

The elders and families of the Lower Rio Grande Valley currently endure one of the harshest, violating and lawbreaking militarized operations in North America, as evidenced in the numerous layers of armed guards policing the unarmed, noncombatant civilian population. These layers of soldiering are comprised of the U.S. Customs Border Patrol, U.S. Army National Guard, U.S. Coast Guard, U.S. D.H.S., local police, Texas Highway Patrol, Texas Rangers, paramilitaries, and private security personnel, among others. The U.S. Department of Defense, North Command (NorthCom) Task Force directs the training of all armed units in the region, as part of the tripartite U.S. global military campaigns: 'war on terror', 'war on drugs', and 'war on illegal immigration.'

NEWS KSWT, YUMA, ARIZONA reports early warnings that Janet Napolitano, if confirmed as Secretary of the United States Department of Homeland Security, may initiate a secondary "Operation Jump Start."

The following is excerpted from a news report from Yuma, Arizona

"Would Napolitano Send Troops Back to the Border?

Governor Janet Napolitano is gearing up for confirmation to the post of Homeland Security Chief. If approved, would she send troops back to the U.S.- Mexico border? A job with the Obama administration would come six months after the Bush adminstration denied Napolitano's request for further help at the border.

The governor's office refused to comment on any decisions that may come after Napolitano's confirmation, but in a June 12th interview, Napolitano expressed concerns over the National Guard's departure from the border.

"We've made progress at the border," she said in that interview. "But things that were supposed to happen while the National Guard was here: the completion of some of the fencing, the staffing up of the Border Patrol, the virtual fence, the technology, you know, has been slower than you said."

The Yuma Sector Border Patrol says the Guard was very helpful. During the deployment, the agency nearly doubled its staff, adding about 400 agents.

"Our recruitment team has been very active holding job fairs throughout our area of operation which includes eastern Arizona, parts of Nevada and Kansas. So we've gone out there and attended colleges. We've gone to job fairs," says Agent Laura Boston. "We now have fencing covering almost all 125 linear miles of Yuma Sector. It's not always fencing but some type of tactical infrastructure."

The proposed virtual fence remains at a stand-still as officials struggle to optimize the technology. It's hard to tell right now whether Arizona could see a second Operation Jump Start."

THE BORDER WALL, A film by Wayne Ewing Premiering in Brownsville, Texas

Border Fence Documentary to be Shown This Week At Two Locations in the Lower Rio Grande Valley

Details

Date?: Thursday 12/4/8
Where?: Galleria 409 ( 409 E. 13th St. ) in Brownsville
Time?: 6 pm

Date?:Friday 12/5/8
Where?: South Texas College mid- Valley campus in Weslaco, (Auditorium, Bldg G190)
Tiime?: 6pm